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Oh No, Canada!


Steven den Beste threw out a pretty interesting topic Tuesday night: the potential breakup of Canada, and the followup possibility of Canadian provinces (particularly in the West) joining the USA. While I must preface this with my thought that I doubt this will really happen, it’s a fun topic about which to speculate wildly, with much less likely (and certainly less immediate) impact than, say, ACC expansion. ;-)

Mark Byron responded pretty cogently this morning, likening the situation more to that of Texas than that of the rest of the West; a population and a government are already in place, they’d just be asking for a home.

I’d expect that, were the secession/statehood question to become real, there would have to be at least two ballot questions, if not two separate votes; something along the lines of “(1) Should the province of Alberta withdraw from the Dominion of Canada?” and “(2) If the province of Alberta withdraws from Canada, should it (a) become an independent country or (b) petition immediately for admittance to the United States of America?” I think Den Beste’s prediction of a western confederation would probably only occur after an interim period of independence — although perhaps not a long one. The Canadian tradition (inherited from the English) of government by custom rather than by strict-constructionist law would actually serve this process quite well, as formal legal documents wouldn’t have to be laid out quite as quickly in this situation as they would for the American option.

That brings us to a sub-issue of the admission vote, that of a state constitution. Canadian provinces don’t appear to have formal written provincial constitutions, just like the country doesn’t have a fully fleshed-out national constitution, as we view the term (defining governmental structure and enumerating limitations on governmental power). Each province would need one to become a US state. (For more info on Canadian government, check out How Canadians Govern Themselves (5th edition) (801K PDF), a high-school level reader on Canadian civics.) In U.S. history, state constitutions were generally written by a constitutional convention after the application question was decided positively. I wonder whether, these days, a constitution would have to be part of the vote for statehood.

For the leaders of such a movement, I doubt a formal move would be made until they had a pretty certain answer to three questions:

  • Will secession succeed?
  • Does the populace support joining the USA?
  • Will the USA take us?

On our side, my biggest question would be whether whether Democrats would predicate an admission vote (especially of Alberta, Saskatchewan and/or Manitoba, potential Republican leans in presidential elections) on statehood for the District of Columbia. (Whether DC actually deserves statehood is another question entirely, one we might explore sometime later.) I’m actually not terribly worried about the question of transferring liabilities of the Canadian welfare state to the U.S. federal government, especially socialized medicine. Those liabilities would likely be the states’ domain under the U.S. federal system, and would merely need to be provided for in the new state constitutions.

Again, this stuff makes my ACC expansion discussions look thoroughly grounded in fact by comparison. It’s just fun to speculate, for many of the same reasons that I enjoy reading Harry Turtledove’s alternate history series. I don’t really expect any of this to happen, simply because the Canadian West’s discontent probably isn’t great enough to overcome the weight of inertia.

Unless Québec pulls a Miami one of these days.

11 June 2003 / 13 Comments / Tags: politics, canada

Comments on “Oh No, Canada!”

  1. It is not impossible for a US state to have an only semi-written constitution. That was the case for Conecticut for most of its existence, in fact.

    I believe all that is required is that Congress aprove the states constitution, not that it be written down.

    I conceded though that it is unlikely such a constitution would be approved.

    Shaulie

    shaulie on June 11th, 2003 at 5:37 pm
  2. …and Connecticut never had to go through the Congressional admission process, being one of the original 13.

    jpandin on June 11th, 2003 at 6:18 pm
  3. How do you spell Connecticut anyway?

    Spot on June 11th, 2003 at 8:10 pm
  4. The thing that annoys me about the push for DC statehood is that the District of columbia was specifically created so as not to put the Capitol in any state.

    I suppose it’d be amusing, though, to see it instantly take first place as the state with the worst crime rate ever.

    B. Durbin on June 11th, 2003 at 9:03 pm
  5. Considering that Saskatchewan and Manitoba both have socialist governments, with policies on the political spectrum about half way between Hillary Clinton and Tom Hayden, I don’t exactly see them as “republican leans”. Even the Canadian Alliance (ex reform) party would fit well into the “new democrat” (Bill Clinton) wing of the Democrats.

    The Canadian political spectrum really does sit well to the left of the American.

    John G. Spragge on June 12th, 2003 at 2:28 am
  6. Point taken. I didn’t go out and check on the current governments in place in those two provinces.

    I think my DC assertion still has some merit even if those “states” would be slight Democrat leans, though. I doubt the Dems would be able to resist the opportunity to tack on a couple more senators and at least one more representative, and I’m QUITE certain that the Sharpton/Moseley-Braun/McKinney wing would turn it into a race issue (“you’ll let a bunch of Canadian white people in, but not the black people among you” etc.). Some potential for a Democratic civil war there.

    Josh on June 12th, 2003 at 9:52 am
  7. I’m kind of glad that John ponied up with something before I did, since he seems to be more intelligent to Canadian politics than I. I was kind of curious how entering states who currently enjoy a socialized medical care system would qualify as “republican leans”? And if so, I’d like to understand better why Bush wants to give me $50 more a month (just got my paycheck with the latest federal withholdings) instead of taking that $50 and improving Medicare?

    capt.taco on June 12th, 2003 at 10:54 am
  8. If by “enjoy a socialized medical care system” you mean “use it for day-to-day stuff, but run like hell for the United States border when they need something important done and don’t want to (or can’t) wait,” then OK. ;-) I personally think the Medicare/Medicaid system needs quite a bit of structural work, but the basic idea of a very limited safety net for those desperately in need is a good thing, but is also where government-provided health care should stop.

    Mark Byron’s article (referenced in my 2nd para) was where I picked up that analysis of SK/MB being possible conservative leaners (or, at least, more so than BC or the Canadian East). From what I hear about Alberta, though, it is pretty strongly conservative (even from an AB native I talked to who doesn’t like conservatism much), so I think my point stands there.

    Josh on June 12th, 2003 at 11:42 am
  9. At some point I heard a proposal that the city of DC should be divided between

    Virginia and Maryland, with the federally controlled district consisting just of the

    bare minimum required by the Constitution, i.e. the White House, Capitol Hill and

    the Mall, etc. It would solve the problem of federal representation for DC, though

    it wouldn’t give the Democrats two more Senators.

    Adam on June 14th, 2003 at 7:47 pm
  10. It wouldn’t be DC. They’d cut up Cali, or maybe spin off the Rio Grande Valley from Texas. But the feds should be pushing for those developments anyway.

    Also, Manitoba and Sask-ah-CHOO-wan have populations even lower than Wyoming’s. No way the Californians and New Yorkers will stand for that. Those provinces are either not coming into the Union at all, or else they will have to settle for territory status, or else they will have to join up with a more populous state (probably Minnesota).

    David Ross on June 15th, 2003 at 11:53 pm
  11. I grew up on the border in Upstate New York (which should also be a separate state - maybe Canada would be interested in taking New York City in trade). As a teenager, I played in Ontario and Quebec more than I did in Vermont or Pennsylvania. My grandfather was a French Canadian who had the good sense to migrate to the American side of the border and his children had the better sense to use English as their first language (sorry, Canada). The secession of Quebec from Canada was always a topic of discussion at home - and the second half of the discussion was…”which English-speaking province would petition for statehood first?” We always thought that it would be Nova Scotia. Oh, by the way, Saskatchewan has twice the population and Manitoba has almost three times the population of Wyoming. No need for either to join Minnesota - the Americans will gladly take them, and their lovely people as is. Skip Wheeler Honolulu, Hawaii (a state the Americans will definitley keep) 3 November 2003

    Skip Wheeler on November 4th, 2003 at 12:26 am
  12. I recently went to Alberta; and Canada for that matter, for the first time in my life, and was completely shocked! The differences between the United States and Alberta was only the money and the metric system. The houses looked the same. The language, everything! I grew up in Phoenix, Arizona, and my family and I would go to Puerto Penasco, Mexico for vacation on the Sea of Cortez. There you could always tell you were in another nation. The phone numbers, the language. Also, I went to London, England, and there was a huge difference as well, even though the language was the same. What I am trying to say is that America and Canada both have evolved together, along the same lines. Are you sure Canada just isnt an unofficial territory of the United States? After all, we are in charge of Canada’s defence. If another nation was to attack Canada, would the US just sit idly buy? I think not. When the US economy hits rough times, so does Canada’s. When the US closes its trade borders to Canada; such with the Albertan mad cow scare, the economy was hit extremely hard. Every Canadian is scared to loose their identity. I would imagine, so would I as an American. But is it so hard to understand that we both already have the same identity and culture as the other. We all are North Americans with separate flags.

    Josh in Arizona on November 23rd, 2003 at 5:17 pm
  13. I hope Canada doesn’t do this. Besides ruining the lives of Canadians but it will also make Uncle Sam more powerful, and more innocent people throughout the world will die, die, die.

    JH Furnish on October 29th, 2004 at 2:07 am